In this podcast, Brandon, Christine, and Justin discuss the process of self-deification from the left-hand path perspective. Not everyone is ready for it, but for those who are, it’s a vital part of the spiritual journey, and really more natural than you might think. But, what is it? Why might it be desirable? And, how can you actually start the process? We’ll answer all these questions and more.
Music composed by Collective Intelligence Music
Resources Mentioned in the Podcast
Discussed in today’s podcast (click the link to jump to that section of the transcript):
- What is self-deification?
- How NLP convinced me to stop believing in non-duality
- Individuation as the default inclination of man
- The twofold path to self-deification
- Is our natural inclination good?
- A fuller definition of spiritual self-deification
- The left-hand path is Satanic in essence
- Self-deification is an ongoing process
- Only you can forgive yourself
- Take 100% responsibility for your life
Brandon: Welcome to The Unseen World. This is episode 6, “Walking the Path of Self-Deification.” I am Brandon Olivares.
Christine: And I’m Christine Olivares.
Justin: And I’m Justin Williams.
Brandon: Today we are talking about the left-hand path. I’ve been talking about this lately. If you didn’t read the blog post on Monday about black magic, I really, really recommend reading that. I will provide a link to that in the show notes.
We’re talking about really the process of self-deification. I didn’t really talk about that too much in the blog post, so I feel like I wanted to branch out into that today. So that will be our topic.
Before all that, some announcements. If you would like to see our show notes, read the transcript, or leave a comment on this podcast, you can go to cocreationcoaching.org/unseen006. If you would like to ask a question for The Unseen World, you can go to cocreationcoaching.org/ask/unseen.
What is Self-Deification?
Brandon: Again, our topic for today is self-deification, what exactly that is. It’s sort of a provocative term, I guess I would say, because it sort of goes against what a lot of popular religion teaches. We’ll be discussing that and why you might want to walk that path. That path is not for everyone. I think eventually it is, but it’s not for everyone where they are right now, so we’ll talk about why you might want to walk that path, how to know if you’re ready for that path, what’s all involved in it, and things such as that. To get started, Justin, what’s your experience or knowledge of any kind of process of self-deification from your perspective?
Justin: I have never much thought of it until we started talking about it. I suppose, looking at some of what Jesus or Yeshua did….I guess that’s mostly it. Then following some of his teachings, looking at some of the gnostic stuff, and creating my own reality as I’ve gone. I haven’t thought of it as self-deification or unification with God. I just thought of it as: I walk the path.
Brandon: It’s a term not too many people think about. The reason I’m very intrigued by it is because for years and years and years and years, I was definitely on the right-hand path. I’m not just talking magically. When I talk about right-hand path versus left-hand path, it’s not just magically speaking. Most religions are on the right-hand path, even if they’re not even magical religions. Christianity, all the Abrahamic religions, are on the right-hand path, plus most of the other religions. Much of Hinduism (not all of it) is a left-hand path. Most of Buddhism. Taoism as far as I know. I don’t know if there’s a left-hand path tradition in Taoism or not. Definitely Jainism and Sikhism and those sorts of major world religions are all sort of right-hand paths by default, even if they have nothing to do with magic or anything like that.
I described the definition of those two on Monday in the post about black magic, but essentially the difference, again, is: Essentially, are you looking to merge with the whole, with the all, with the universe? Or are you looking to deify yourself? That’s really the major difference.
The reason it intrigues me so much is that I walked on that right-hand path for years. I started getting into non-duality teachings when I was 13, maybe. I started with Wicca, paganism, ceremonial magic, and that whole thing. Then I got into Hinduism and Advaita-Vedanta sort of teachings, enlightenment teachings, stuff like that. I had my first nondual experience at the age of 13 all the way up to about 3 years ago. I finally dropped those teachings…
Christine: Well, you were different things other than that.
Brandon: Yes, but overall I was always right-hand path.
Brandon: I was always—even when I didn’t believe that—geared towards a belief in oneness and non-duality. Throughout my path, I would explore some of the Abrahamic religions. [laughs] Justin remembers.
Christine: Before, it was Catholicism.
Brandon: First Catholicism. When I was 16, I was Jehovah’s Witness, so there’s that.
Brandon: I roped one of my best friends into coming into one of the conventions with me. I needed someone to stay with. There was an older couple taking us, but we weren’t going to stay in the room with them. I roped him into going with me. He put up with so much. [laughs]
Justin: That was nice of him.
Brandon: That was really nice of him.
How NLP Convinced Me to Stop Believing in Non-Duality
Brandon: I did a lot of stuff. I always had (especially later on as I progressed in these things) this default or tendency towards the belief in oneness, even if I couldn’t explicitly say so. That was always part of it. I would say I finally dropped that about 2 years ago, a little less than 2 years ago, when I got trained in NLP. I’ve talked about this a little bit.
When I got my NLP certification and being trained in it, we talked about different perspectives: dissociative versus associative, and how those perspectives fit together. The dissociative perspective, which is really the nondual perspective of no self, is one of two valid perspectives at least. An associative perspective is also valid in certain contexts. Neither of them is really right or wrong. Neither of them is the right way of seeing things. I found that non-duality demonized the associative way of viewing the world. That helped me to open up and reject…
Christine: It took you a while, though.
Brandon: Yes, it did take me a while.
Christine: Sorry, I don’t mean to jump in. Even after you were doing NLP, you tried to find ways.
Brandon: I did. I did, yeah.
Christine: Up until even recently, I think, because…
Brandon: It’s a hard thing to…[laughs]
Christine: It’s like if someone comes up to you and says, “Christianity’s a farce.” Or another world religion that you’re used to believing. Tell a faithful Catholic that their religion is wrong.
Brandon: Right. They’re not going to believe you.
Christine: They’re not going to believe you. That’s how it was with you. It took you forever because you’d done it since you were 13.
Brandon: It’s hard to get rid of that perspective. It is really hard to get rid of that perspective of non-duality.
Justin: What did non-duality do? It demonized…
Brandon: It really sticks to the dissociative way of viewing the world. Dissociation means you’re separate and apart from—it’s a “no self” sort of thing. You’re not getting caught up in the sensations or thoughts of the self. Association is getting right into those emotions and experiences and thoughts—into the “selfness” of the experience and really experiencing it. non-duality says, “None of that’s real, so why do it?”
Christine: I remember when we were studying Hinduism and they gave us books in Braille about it. The one thing told us about imagine watching a tv screen: that’s your life.
Brandon: Right. Exactly. I forgot about that. That’s the perfect dissociative frame.
What I realized with NLP is, that’s useful in certain contexts. If you have a bad memory, then it’s useful to dissociate from it.
Justin: Absolutely. You don’t want to associate with it.
Brandon: But a positive memory—a positive childhood memory, or the day of your wedding, any kind of positive memory you might have….I have several of them I turn back to when I want to feel good about something.
Christine: Me, too.
Brandon: To dissociate from those is almost self-harming. It doesn’t do good for you.
Christine: If you dissociated from our wedding, I’d kill you. [laughs]
Justin: Oh, my God! [laughs]
Brandon: That escalated quickly. [laughs]
Justin: That’s why you left that path—right there.
Christine: I’ve never said that to him out loud.
Brandon: Out loud, see? Anyway, the associative perspective is really helpful with positive memories. That’s really an integral part of creation—that’s what I’ve realized over the years of magic and law of attraction—the associating into the experiences you want to have. It was hard to get rid of that nondual perspective for sure, because I’d had it for years and had so many non-dual experiences (which I don’t consider false). It’s just a quality of consciousness that you can enter into that sort of frame. But we take that and say it’s absolutely true, there’s actually no self, blah blah blah, and do this whole thing. I lived (I said this on the blog) for a year in a total non-dual no-self perspective, and I didn’t really see the value of it, to be quite honest.
Justin: I actually remember that. That was 2014, right?
Brandon: Yes. Did I know you that long?
Justin: I remember that.
Brandon: Yes, 2014 into 2015.
Justin: You were doing satsangs.
Brandon: Yes! Oh my gosh, I forgot you were there.
Justin: No, I remember. I thought it was pretty neat, actually, because I like Taoism.
Brandon: The Tao Te Ching.
Justin: I liked the Tao Te Ching. Wayne Dyer wrote his version. That was great.
Brandon: It’s a really good book.
That was hard to get out of just because I was so into it and had so many experiences there. Ultimately, I didn’t really see value in it. I saw it as self-denying. We had a really big debate about this in the blog on Monday.
Christine: Oh, gosh.
Brandon: I saw it as self-denying. I saw it as denying your right to have desires. I don’t remember who said this, but it’s brilliant: to try to get rid of all desires is itself a desire.
Christine: It is so true.
Brandon: It is. We have the desire for enlightenment and for experiencing things.
Christine: That’s what I never understood about Buddhism. We have to go to nirvana. Well, that’s a desire, so…
Brandon: They do describe it as the last desire to fall away, but still, it’s a desire. I don’t think it’s ever possible. I think people are really good at deluding themselves into believing either they’ve done it or are doing it, but I don’t believe it’s actually possible, ultimately speaking. That’s my thing.
Christine: Look at all the masters that make mistakes. They don’t think they have desires, but they do. You read right through it.
Brandon: I totally think they do. Starting from there and opening into more left-hand path stuff, I think it was really last October that was the final nail in the coffin. When I started working, it was with Hades. Implicitly (I didn’t realize it at the time) I was choosing to walk down the left-hand path. I knew that it would be darkness. I didn’t know the nature of that darkness and the nature of how that would all work. It made itself very, very clear in a short period of time. I really have enjoyed that path. It has been much more fulfilling than the non-dual path.
The left-hand path, again, is all about separating yourself from the whole. To me as a non-dualist, that would be: you can’t, that’s nuts. The ego is not real. You’re just playing into the ego desire. You’re just going backwards in your spiritual evolution. To me as a non-dualist, that would not have been possible or it would have been crazy.
Individuation As the Default Inclination of Man
Brandon: But as I’ve really opened up to the thought of it, the thing that I was thinking recently, is that it’s the default inclination. If you really look at it, it’s the default inclination of all human beings. If you look at it, you can really see it’s the default inclination of human beings. As a baby, that human being is not a distinct individual as such. There is some difference, but most babies have the same drives and needs. They grow into different individuals. It’s the process of childhood. Christine would probably be able to name certain psychologists who have studied these things.
Christine: Erik Erikson.
Brandon: [laughs] The mental health major on board here. What’s that, Justin?
Christine: I forgot about Piaget.
Justin: I know, too. That’s right.
Christine: Remember? He had the stages of…
Brandon: Oh, yeah, yeah.
So from childhood, you begin in this non-distinct state, and you gradually grow into a distinct individual. What do we say about the terrible twos? As a child, you learn to say no. [laughs] You learn that that’s a possibility.
Christine: You’re trying to be more independent at that age. You explore with your mouth. I’m not trying to sound Freudian.
Brandon: No, but it’s what happens. As you grow up and learn that you are a separate individual with separate preferences than your parents and friends…
Christine: They might hate that, your parents.
Brandon: As a teenager, you rebel. You do your own thing. You question the values of your parents and you take on your own values.
Christine: You know, mine didn’t come until it was later. I didn’t rebel until I was 20.
Brandon: Because I don’t think you thought it was a possibility. [laughs] No offense, but she was the good Catholic girl.
Justin: When did you rebel against your Catholic upbringing?
Brandon: It took me to corrupt her. [laughs]
Justin: You corrupted her?
Christine: Yes, he did.
Justin: And then you went back to Catholicism and then re-corrupted her?
Brandon: No, I went to Catholicism first, and then corrupted her.
Christine: You had to try to return two more times.
Brandon: I had to try to return, but it didn’t work. It was not for long.
Anyway, that’s the general process of human development. None of us see human development as: as babies, we are super-distinct individuals and we grow into more and more likeness. The process of human development is the process of individuation.
Christine: It really is.
The Twofold Path to Self-Deification
Brandon: That’s sort of how it works. The issue is twofold. #1 is that process of individuation is halted for most people after a certain degree because they’re caught up by society by the vision society has for them.
Brandon: They let themselves get caught up by that. They suppress the vision that they had for themselves and stop developing at that point. If you look at most teenagers moving into college, either their parents have impressed their vision of their lives upon their children, or the children choose a path, but it’s the rat race. They go to college and get the degree and the job. Most people don’t even get the job in the field they studied.
Justin: Here’s the college thing. They’re actually not that way yet. They’re actually really gung-ho. “I’m going to change the world.”
Brandon: In college, yeah. [laughs] After college, after the real world kicks in.
Justin: Then after college, depending on your degree….Most people in undergrad may not get a job in that field. If you’re a grad student and you don’t get a job in your field, you wasted your time. Depending upon your degree, what happens is then you get your job. If you’re business, you get your job, or if you’re math or science. Especially liberal arts, there’s no telling what kind of job you’ll get. You get your job.
Then the rat race starts. Then you’re caught up. You’re afraid to do anything. You’ve got all the same concerns or whatever else. You’re afraid to actually grow. What I’ve noticed is, people stop reading. They do a lot on Facebook, but they don’t actually read a real book. They read some internet articles. Internet articles are great. They don’t read stuff. They don’t develop themselves, and that’s what you’re talking about at that point.
Then all the stuff that you see, you try to fit into a mold. That’s okay if you can use that mold. You try to fit there. It starts dictating everything that you do. You’re dating the people they want you to date. You’re associating with….After a while, your life becomes everyone else’s. Everyone else is dreaming for you. You’re doing it for other people. Your life becomes everyone else’s dream, and that’s when they lose it.
Brandon: It’s true. It seems like as you continue on, especially as you said, after college and stuff, you start to lose that vision. You start to allow yourself to get caught up in the vision of society and your parents. Not even the vision of—because it’s not even a vision. It’s just a fear-based consciousness that you get caught up in. It just doesn’t work. That’s right around where people get stuck, I think. That’s right about where people get stuck.
The second thing I was talking about is that this is only really the emotional, mental sense of individuation. Individuation on its own doesn’t make self-deification. It’s the spiritual aspect which can come later, but doesn’t for most people. That’s because most religions, as I said, will either encourage merging with the whole, or being subject to some external deity. Most Western religions are about being subject to an external deity. Most Eastern religions are about merging with the whole. Some are also about being subject to a deity, especially the more dualistic Hindu traditions. It’s a totally different thing.
Spiritual individuation and self-deification is the next level of what the soul picks up from developing as a child and a teenager and developing your own vision. That’s a whole different thing. That’s really the next level for me. Again, going back to the point, you see that it is the natural inclination of people. People by default want to become different. People by default want to be someone else than other people. They want to be different. They want to create something new.
Justin: They want to still stay connected in such a way that they look to everyone else like they’re doing the same thing.
Brandon: Yes, that conformity thing…
Justin: They want to conform but be different.
Brandon: That’s where they get caught up.
Justin: It’s really both.
Is Our Natural Inclination Good?
Brandon: That’s the blocking point where people get caught. In general, you don’t want to be exactly like everyone else. You don’t want to be doing all the same things. You want to do your own thing, but people have this need for approval, so they let themselves get caught up with all this other stuff and try to conform. Just in general, this is the natural inclination.
Here’s the thing, though. This is something that I’ve thought about a lot over the years. From the Christian perspective, when I say, “Oh, the inclination by default is for someone to be their own person and to develop and to question and to rebel and to be free,” what will the Christian say? “That’s their fallen nature.”
Brandon: “That’s Satan. That’s the fallen nature. That’s the original sin. That’s the sin of Adam and Eve.”
To us, we can say our nature is not fallen, so we don’t have to distrust this natural inclination to individuation. We can actually say, “This is actually a pointer to what we’re supposed to do.”
If you ask a Christian, again, they’ll point to your fallen nature, the Fall, original sin, Adam and Eve, Satan, and whatnot.
I thought of this several years ago when I was really struggling with leaving the Church for good. What happened was as I was leaving, I realized that to someone else (a Christian, a Catholic, especially to Christine’s family) it could look like and did look like I was being [creepy voice] swayed by the devil. That I was being led astray. [laughs] I was surrendering to my fallen nature, whatever you want to say. That’s how Christians would say it. “Oh, he’s been tempted by the devil.”
To me and everyone I knew that were non-Christian, it was just like, “Hey, that didn’t work out for him. That fear-based religion is something he’s moved beyond, and now it’s time for something else.” Two totally different perspectives. Which one is true?
Justin: Yes. Yes.
Brandon: Which one is true? That is something I really struggled with and really saw both ways. You could really validate your perspective both ways.
Justin: It would depend upon what you’re moving towards. If you were just moving towards another path, that would be okay. If you were really moving towards a path of technical evil….But if you just wanted to go do [name another religion].
Brandon: But that’s the thing, though. That’s why in the next Unseen World podcast, I want to talk about what is really evil. You say “technical evil,” but if I tell a Christian, “I’m leaving Christianity to go be in the occult.”
Justin: That’s not necessarily evil.
Brandon: But to them it is.
Christine: Yes. To them it is. They think you’re going to get possessed.
Brandon: Do you ever watch those old haunting shows? “Oh, this person did the tarot. This person was in the occult. They did witchcraft.” It’s always leading to some possession. I tell Christine, “I started witchcraft when I was 9 years old. I played with a Ouija board when I was 11 (which, by the way, didn’t work). I have done tarot for a decade now, and I’ve never (to my knowledge) gotten possessed.”
Justin: It’s hard to get possessed.
Brandon: My point is, you say “if you’re going towards technical evil,” but according to whom? What’s evil? I don’t want to get into it too much because we’ll get into it next week, but to a Christian, saying I’m going into the occult (which is what I think it was)…
Christine: You were going into the New Age first. You weren’t…
Brandon: Remember the first time I put “occult” as my religion on Facebook?
Christine: Oh, my dad just about had a heart attack.
Brandon: [laughs] You’d think I was worshipping the devil or something.
Justin: I’ve never met anybody who put “occult” as a religion. That is about as unique as it comes. It just did not even occur to me.
Brandon: I was staying pretty general. I didn’t want to put anything more specific. Just occultism. I almost did that recently before I found the left-hand path and all that.
When he saw I was into the occult, he was like, “I don’t know what I think about this.”
Christine: He told me, so I gave him articles to read. Then he never said a thing after that. I don’t know why.
Brandon: What is evil? Again, that’s a topic for another day. To them, it looks like I’m being swayed by the devil or something and being tempted and led astray.
Christine: Even if you go to another Christian denomination, like if Catholics go to a Methodist church, they’ll be like, “I’ll pray that they get the truth again.” Are you kidding me? I had that discussion with a friend the other day. I told her how I really like the Episcopal church and how I’ve been going and how I prefer it over the Catholic church. She was like, “But it’s not apostolic succession.”
Brandon: God forbid.
Christine: She’s giving me all these reasons.
Justin: I’d have been like, “So?”
Christine: I said to her, “Jesus loves everybody. It’s Christian, and that’s all that matters.” She shut up after that.
Brandon: That was something that I struggled with several years ago, as I said. People think I’m being swayed by the devil or something. I think I’m just trying to be free and find my path. It was like either way you see it, either way is valid in its own context, but to me it just wasn’t that way at all.
Christine: Which is why I do not believe in converting anybody to any religion.
Brandon: Right, that’s what I was saying before. To us, we can trust that inclination. To us, we can trust that natural inclination. We see the natural inclination is to progress towards individuation, and we trust that. To a Christian (or any kind of Abrahamic religion, especially), that inclination is fallen, wrong, evil by default.
Justin: Buddhists don’t really do it, either, I guess.
Brandon: Well, they don’t really see us as fallen or anything.
Justin: That’s true.
Brandon: So you have to ask yourself. We can see the inclination that’s there, but what does that mean to you? To me, I trust our natural inclination as what we’re supposed to do: to become individuated. That is the beginning of the left-hand path. Most people block that off very quickly.
Justin: I just never thought of it. I just thought if I can walk in the path the way that Christ did it, using that kind of energetic blend, that’s my path. I just did that.
Christine: I agree with you.
Justin: This is how I’ve thought of it.
Brandon: We’re having a great discussion so far. I think it’s about time for a bit of a break. We will return in just a moment. Once again, you are listening to The Unseen World.
A Fuller Definition of Spiritual Self-Deification
Brandon: We are back. Once again, you are listening to The Unseen World. Before we went on the break, we were talking about self-deification, especially the fact that by default our nature is to seek self-individuation. I think we established that pretty well. Once you get to that point where you’re on the path of self-individuation (not deification)—again, this is the physical, mental, emotional part of it, not the spiritual. That’s where most people stop and most people stagnate on that level of the physical, mental, emotional level of self-individuation. They start to want to conform to society and whatnot.
Again, if you continue that forward, the next part is the spiritual part of self-deification.
What exactly does that mean? What is self-deification? I want to say first of all, by the way, this is not such a controversial subject as it seems. It’s a very different context, but I remember the Eastern Orthodox Church has the concept of becoming deified. I think that they call it…
Christine: They do?
Brandon: Yes. Being divinized?
Christine: Divinized? That’s divination.
Brandon: No, becoming like divine.
Justin: Divinized, yes.
Brandon: I remember because of John, the Catholic guy.
Christine: The older one? Yes.
Brandon: He told me, I believe, about this concept in the Eastern Orthodox Church of apotheosis, of becoming like God. Not becoming God Himself or Itself, but becoming like God, becoming divine in one’s own nature, becoming transformed so one is like God. That’s the goal of the Eastern Orthodox.
Christine: I never knew that.
Brandon: The difference is for them, the power comes from the outside deity. But it’s still there, though, so it’s something.
Christine: Well, even we use outside deities, too.
Justin: That’s cool. I like that.
Brandon: Isn’t that neat?
Christine: We even use outside deities to help us, too. We partner with them and help them.
Brandon: Yes, but the power doesn’t come from them. The power itself of self-deification comes from ourselves.
Justin: Mine for me would come from partnership with.
Brandon: You partner with others and they aid you, but the power of self-deification has to come from you, or else what kind of god is dependent on another god? You’re not really quite a god. [laughs]
Justin: That’s the shaman thing rearing its head, saying I partner.
Brandon: Yes, partner with it. And partnering with another deity will help you to get certain things done, but the power of self-deification is your own. It comes from the Black Flame, which is the gift of whatever you call it. We call it the Prince of Darkness as I discussed it in the black magic post in The Order of the Black Flame. The Black Flame is the initiative to create, to will, to invent. That is, when nurtured, what helps us to deify. That comes from our own essence.
Justin: That Eastern Orthodox Church thing—that was neat.
Brandon: That was cool. You should do more research on that.
Christine: I know.
Justin: I should.
Brandon: That is where that comes from. I guess the Eastern Orthodox is a pseudo-self-deification, because they wouldn’t see it as being equal with God. You’re still lesser than, in their eyes, but it’s still something. I think it’s really neat. The process of self-deification, when we say to become a god, you have to realize it doesn’t mean to become a capital G god like “the God.” The God is really the essence of the universe, really.
Christine: The “I AM” or whatever.
Justin: You’re just trying to become…
Brandon: You’re trying to become a god. What you have to realize in paganism (this is what people get confused about with polytheists), their gods aren’t all omnipotent and omniscient and all that kind of stuff. Their gods have certain specializations, characteristics, personality traits. They’re limited. That’s an important part of it.
To become a god means that you’re not going to become omniscient or omnipotent, but in your own world, you are the final authority. You are not subject to another. Self-deification is about bending to no one but yourself.
I like how the Temple of Set describes it. Right-hand path religions are about nature worship, even if they don’t realize it; it’s about worship of the objective universe or outside deity. The left-hand path traditions are about psyche worship. You are isolating yourself.
Christine: I like that.
Brandon: That’s the distinction.
Justin: That’s why I didn’t go with pagan religions. I’m not going to be subjected. I just can’t do it. I’m okay with following the God, the creator. That’s fine. That’s cool. But archangels, angels, and saints—you don’t pray to them. [laughs]
The Left-Hand Path is Satanic in Essence
Brandon: That’s really the process of self-deification. You’re becoming your own authority in your own right. You’re not bending to anyone else. That’s what it is.
Why I think a lot of left-hand path traditions (some people call them all Satanism—I don’t agree with that; some do,some don’t) are Satanic in essence insofar as Satan is a symbol of the rebellion against order. I love this (I don’t know if you can call it a book; it’s 19 pages) little thing called The Diabolicon by Michael Aquino. It’s a mythologized version of how we got this gift of intelligence. It’s about Satan/Lucifer and his rebellion against heaven. He’s trying to bring us knowledge and give us the choice and free will to choose our own path and not just be subject to whatever God wants us to do. It’s really fascinating. It’s actually on the reading list for The Order of the Black Flame. It’s a really fascinating account. I’ve read it twice. Again, it’s really short, so it’s not much to say I’ve read it twice. [laughs] It’s really fascinating.
Justin: That’s his job, to allow you to choose and to experience that. To battle against your own ego, that’s the same thing. To learn. That’s what he’s there for, all that kind of stuff.
Brandon: Right. It depends on what you say is ego. I wouldn’t necessarily say battle against your own ego, because that’s…
Justin: Yes, that was a horrible way to…
Brandon: It’s sort of an Eastern thing: “Oh, your ego’s bad.”
Justin: That was a horrible way to say it.
Brandon: To battle against your fears.
Justin: To experience ego and yourself in a virile sense and learn how to work with the shadow side. How do you work with that shadow side? How do you blend it with the light side? The first way I said it was terrible, just terrible. [laughs]
Brandon: I would see it as the battle against inertia. I talked to you about this last night, Justin. Inertia. Really, the order of things, the natural objective universe, the laws like to keep things orderly. We are not orderly. Our consciousness is not orderly. It’s battling against that order and separating ourselves from it so as to make something of ourselves. There’s so much I could speak about for hours and hours and hours. Unfortunately, we’re limited.
That is what it is. Again, this Diabolicon is about Lucifer rebelling against heaven because he wants to make something of himself and of the other angels who followed him and to allow man—not to make them, because force or making something happen is something of order, but giving us the option of choosing our own path, and that’s okay.
Justin: I would even take it a step. Most people are afraid of this, but I’d even say only choosing your own path and only actually coming into conflict with those darker forces allow you to see how you choose. For me, I actually get more with it than most people, but I don’t necessarily want to do that. At some point later, that’s exactly how I use it.
Brandon: In that way, left-hand path traditions are all Satanic in nature and essence. Not all of them would identify with that symbol, but I see where that characterization comes from. You have to understand what Satanic means in that way. It means they’re rebelling against the order of things. It means making something of yourself, being free to be your own god. That’s what it means.
That’s why I see left-hand path traditions in that way. But some of them don’t identify with that label. A lot of them don’t identify with that label. They might identify with different gods or deities or no deities at all. There are atheists who are on the left-hand path. It just depends. But that’s really what it is. The left-hand path is about self-deification.
Self-Deification is an Ongoing Process
Brandon: What I want to say about self-deification is it’s a process. It’s a process. We have this tendency in the New Age community or on the fluffy bunny right-hand path traditions of saying, “You are God already because you are one with the source of everything.” Self-deification doesn’t say, “You’re God now; it’s done. Good job.” Self-deification starts from the point of non-godhood and aims to end in godhood. Just like as a baby you’re not individuated—you’re not. You have to struggle with it and get there. To say you’re already individuated is sort of a lie.
Justin: Start on the right-hand path, circle around through the left-hand path, get back up on the top where both paths meet. [laughs]
Brandon: I don’t think they ever meet because the right-hand path is all about merging into the capital G God, whereas the left-hand path is becoming essentially different and essentially distinct from capital G God so that you are a smaller g god.
Justin: Kind of like some of the pagan gods, folks.
Brandon: Exactly! Right.
Christine: I was going to say even once you self-deify, does it ever stop? Do you ever stop growing?
Brandon: Oh, God, no. Not as long as you’re here, no.
Christine: You can’t at a point say, “I’m self-deified now.”
Brandon: No, it’s a constant process.
Christine: It’s a constant process until we die or until whatever happens next lifetime. That’s the goal, obviously. There’s not this one moment.
Brandon: [laughs] Like enlightenment, no.
Christine: It’s not even like you do a ritual to do it. You could, probably, but it’s striving to do that every day. It’s not like you get confirmed and all of a sudden the Holy Spirit comes. A lot of people think, “Once you’re confirmed, that’s all I have to do. I’m going to stop going to church,” blah blah blah. That’s not how it works. You’ve got to develop that relationship. It’s the same thing. Not to bring Christian, but it was a perfect example.
Justin: You did the first day. I know someone that got confirmed. I didn’t mean to interrupt you, Christine.
Brandon: Oh, they stopped.
Justin: I met someone that got baptized. They said they didn’t really feel anything. I said, “Did you fast for a day or two like you’re supposed to? Stay up all night?” They said they didn’t do all that. I said that’s probably why you didn’t feel a whole lot. [laughs]
Christine: A lot of people just don’t take it seriously. They’re like, “That’s the end of my Catholic journey” or whatever else, confirmation. It’s not just Catholic. It’s Episcopalian, too and all those other ones. That’s the end of that, so I can reschedule my normal life. Come back to my regularly scheduled life. That’s what I meant to say.
Brandon: Yes, that’s definitely how people do it, but it is a process. It’s a process where you start. The important aspect is you start from not being distinct in that way quite as much or not being deified, to a point where you are. You are becoming more and more so.
Brandon: Again, like Christine said, there’s not a point where it’s like, “Oh, it’s done.” No. The left-hand path is about dynamism and constant change. There’s always growth. There’s always improvement. What I’m saying is, there’s not this thing where the left-hand path says, “You’re already God because you’re one with God” and whatnot. I don’t know. “Feel good about that.” You are carving out your own path. You are carving out your own path.
What is it I’ve always said? It reminds me of this for some reason. In the law of attraction or magic context, when you have a goal, you’re carving out your own path to that goal. It’s not just going to happen on its own because the subconscious structures just don’t support it. You’re carving a path to that goal, which is a struggle. It’s hard. We were talking about the struggle—I don’t know when it was, maybe it was the support call. No, it was last week’s podcast, I think. You are struggling with it. You are carving a path. I use the word “carving” because it’s a difficult process. You don’t just flow through to the goal. You carve through to the goal. You have to chisel at it. [laughs] That’s how self-deification is. You have to carve a way to your own self-deification. Carve a path. That’s how it’s done.
Justin: You’ve got to chisel away at it. My thing is, I’ve always been—they say you have God in you—if you’ve got part of the Creator in you, how come you can’t be a creator? My thing is, I create. I create. “You are God. You have part of the Godforce in you.” Of course. I’m going to create, too, then, because I can. That’s how my attitude has always been. I’m just going to create. I can do my thing.
Brandon: That’s the whole thing about self-deification. You have that power within you. You can create. You can forge a path to your own self-deification to your own path that you will walk. That’s what it is.
Only You Can Forgive Yourself
Brandon: That brings me to another point. Self-deification is difficult because you don’t get to have someone else bail you out, so to speak, or to make things softer. A lot of the Western religions, you have forgiveness. God forgives you. The only force that really matters to you that can forgive you is you. No God is going to do that, because they don’t honestly care.
Justin: On the left-hand path.
Brandon: On the left-hand path, you do your thing.
Justin: Do your thing. We will partner with you, but you have to forgive you.
Brandon: If you are feeling like you did something wrong, you have to be honest with yourself. You have to forgive yourself (if that’s warranted) and make the necessary changes. Here’s the difficult part: we love to lie to ourselves. We love to lie to ourselves.
Justin: I’ve never done forgiveness either way, either from God or myself. I don’t do either. I have a harsh path, dude.
Brandon: That’s your choice. The thing is, you are judge and jury for yourself. You get to say, “Do I forgive myself?” and “What changes do I make in life?” The light of knowledge.
Remember in Genesis, the serpent said, “You will have knowledge of good and evil.” Good and evil. What I think that means is not literal good and evil, but how have I succeeded, how have I failed. The light of knowledge is a very harsh thing, is it not?
Justin: It is.
Brandon: You get to see all your mistakes in high definition. The left-hand path is about ultra self-honesty because no one else is going to do it later.
Christine: It also helps. I think that’s where the idea of reconciliation came from, except it was really twisted. Sometimes, if you tell someone what you did wrong, they will point out exactly why you did it so that you can forgive yourself. Sometimes you need someone to point out, like a coach or something, “Get over yourself.” It’s hard to tell that to yourself. You could do self-talk until you’re blue in the face, but sometimes it helps to talk to someone you know is going to let you have it.
Brandon: But in the end, it’s down to your decision. It’s down to your choice.
Christine: Well, obviously.
Brandon: “How am I going to handle this in my own life? Am I going to let it slide and not make any changes? Or am I actually going to take responsibility and do what I have to do and be harsh on myself but make the changes I have to make in my life?”
Brandon: You can have someone point that out, but ultimately you’re the sole arbiter of everything in regards to yourself. You are the god of your universe. No one else can tell you what to do. Someone else can suggest things. You have to implement them. You have to apply them.
Christine: Yes, well, of course.
Brandon: It’s a harsh path because the light of the knowledge of good and evil is about seeing everything in clarity. That’s something we don’t like to do. We like to hide that as much as we can. But seeing exactly what you’ve done and what you think about that—being honest about that—that’s all about the left-hand path. That’s the path to self-deification. It’s not easy, per se. But it’s also not requiring perfection. I heard this quote somewhere. I don’t know the source of it. It might have been a Reddit comment. “Perfection is not being without mistakes. Perfection is the constant process of self-improvement.”
Christine: I love that.
Brandon: That’s perfect. You are perfect as long as you’re improving yourself every day. Then you’re perfect. Good job. But as soon as you start getting lazy about that, then you have to be honest with yourself there. Perfection is not: “I make no mistakes. I’m perfect. I’m flawless.” You will never be there, obviously. You will never be there.
Even if you look at the mythologies of ancient cultures, the gods made mistakes. The gods did kind of stupid things. Even if you’re a god, you’re not going to be exempt from doing stupid things. The point is, will you be honest with yourself after the fact? Will you realize what you did and be honest with yourself and deal with yourself as appropriate according to your own measures?
Justin: The other thing I’ve always come up is if you know you did something that you know you actually did nothing wrong, but it didn’t work because of outside forces, then you have to take responsibility and say, “These forces messed me up. That’s not really an excuse for failure. It’s not. Next time, we’re going to make sure these outside force are simply not in play.” No, you don’t give anyone a second chance if they’ve done that. You make sure those outside forces are not in play. That’s another thing that’s hard for people to do. “If it wasn’t for this and this.” Okay, you know that’s what happened. That means you make sure A and B over there are not involved with you next time.
Brandon: Right. By the way, if you hear snoring in the background, our cat is snoring. [laughs] I can’t stop it. If you hear snoring, that’s why.
Christine: I thought you were about to imitate it for a minute.
Brandon: No, I can’t even imitate it. [laughs]
Justin: I’m not going to try to stop him, either. Just let him do it.
Brandon: Just let him do it. I don’t know why he snores. He curls up on my end table and he just snores away. It’s hilarious.
Christine: He has sleep apnea. No, I’m just kidding.
Brandon: Our cat has sleep apnea. [laughs]
Justin: That’s kind of how I see it. Those things messed you up, but you are still the one that did not get what you want. Since you didn’t get it, you still have to find a way to actually succeed and get it.
Take 100% Responsibility for Your Life
Brandon: That was actually my last point I want to discuss: full responsibility. You don’t have the comfort or luxury of saying, “Satan tempted me,” or “Things were sabotaged by demons.” [laughs] Even less dramatic than that, a lot of New Agey people or people in general will blame everyone but themselves.
Christine: Oh, I know.
Brandon: You don’t have that luxury as a god. This is going to be a stupid question because in the Bible it happens all the time. What kind of God blames other people for things happening? You don’t do that. You take full responsibility for your life and everything that happens in it. If something didn’t happen, oops, I didn’t create it as I wanted to.
Justin: God force.
Brandon: Exactly. You have to be honest with yourself. I don’t want to be so strong as to say “failed,” but “I failed to achieve the goal that I wanted to.” That’s true. That’s not a failure. That’s a different thing entirely. We talk about how there’s no failure, only feedback. You failed to achieve the objective that you had in mind. That’s up to you. No one else can prevent you from that.
Christine: It’s not a blame thing. It’s a responsibility.
Justin: It’s not a blame thing. Actually, people don’t understand. “It wasn’t my fault.” No, it actually may not have been your fault. It’s got nothing to do with blame. Johnny down the street really could have screwed you up. It could have been on him. I mean straight-up. You didn’t succeed, so you might want to make sure that Johnny down the street doesn’t do that again. It’s your responsibility to make sure that doesn’t happen.
Brandon: I was going to say, I love the random names you come up with. Last week, it was Rick and James.
Justin: It was? Wow. [laughs]
Brandon: This week it’s “Johnny down the street.” I love it. [laughs] Just saying. I don’t know how to say it. I love your random names.
Christine: I do, too.
Brandon: Rick and James it was. Rick and James.
Justin: It was? I don’t even remember. [laughs] Rick and James, wow.
Brandon: I don’t know where these random names. Where did he get Rick and James?
Christine: Not even Jimmy, but James.
Brandon: Rick and James.
Justin: I like to put something on there so you understand.
Brandon: No, it’s cool.
Justin: That’s funny.
Christine: I do, too.
Brandon: [laughs] But yes, full responsibility. Those who are self-deifying themselves, who are deifying themselves.
Christine: [laughs] Self-deifying themselves, okay.
Brandon: Anyway, the Department of Redundancy Department.
Christine: [laughs] Good one.
Brandon: Those who are deifying themselves need to take full responsibility for everything. Everything. I remember I had a friend years ago who would always talk about 100% responsibility. That’s my key phrase now. 100% responsibility for everything.
Justin: I’ve been doing that for years, man.
Brandon: Even if it seems it has nothing to do with you, it’s still in your reality. Your reality is your domain. That’s your dominion.
Christine: The only time it doesn’t count is when you’re married. Then you blame each other all the time. I’m joking.
Justin: The thing is, I’ve been doing this for years and it’s worked. I’ve been doing it I don’t know how long, since my late 20s.
Brandon: Your reality is your dominion and what you rule over. If it’s in your reality, then you’re responsible.
Justin: That contributed to your not succeeding at something.
Brandon: Exactly. That’s how it is. Like we answered the question last week, if it triggers emotion in you, then you created it. You’re responsible for it, and it’s in your reality for a reason.
Justin: Now, everybody, that’s different from it being your fault. It may not be your fault.
Brandon: It may be. I don’t know. [laughs]
Justin: Some people put them together. No. They’re not the same. If somebody throws something over your fence, you need to get it out of there. You didn’t throw it over your fence, but it’s definitely your responsibility to handle it now, so do so.
Brandon: Exactly. Again, you have that power. Again, it’s all about deifying yourself. It’s about creating your own world, being your own person, creating something other than what has been created, being something different. It’s that individuating principle of the physical, mental, emotional level that is natural to us. Then you carry that forth into the spiritual and actually deify yourself. Individuation is more on the lower levels. Deification is on the spiritual level. That’s where you become your own essence, your own being. You refuse to merge.
This is a Satanic symbol. You refuse to merge with the order of things with the capital G God and become your own god by creating your own reality, creating your own world, and being fully responsible for everything in that world. That is what it means to be deified or to deify yourself. It’s to fully create, be fully responsible, and be fully separate, but also to wield the power to bend the laws of the objective universe. Not only is it to be separate, but then to bend those laws to your own will. That’s really the final bit: to bend those laws to your own will is the final act of self-deification. To perfect that art, that’s black magic.
Hopefully this discussion has really helped. I think it was a really enlightening one, no pun intended.
Christine: It was awesome. Endarkening.
Once again, if you would like to see the show notes, you can go to cocreationcoaching.org/unseen006.
If you would like to subscribe to us on iTunes or rate or review us, which would be amazing (hint hint) (actually I have no idea how many people have reviewed us; I haven’t really looked; but you should anyway) you can go to cocreationcoaching.org/unseenitunes and that will redirect you to our iTunes page. We’d be very happy. [laughs]
I hope that everyone has enjoyed this discussion today. I know I have. With that, I hope that everyone has a wonderful weekend. I am Brandon Olivares.
Christine: And I’m Christine Olivares.
Justin: And I’m Justin Williams.
Brandon: And anything is possible.
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How About You?
Now it’s your turn. How do you feel about the process of self-deification? Where are you on that path in your own life: in the first stage of emotional/mental individuation, or in the second stage of spiritual self-deification? Let me know your thoughts in the comments.